Gandi Bar - Gandi.net in the U.S! - Comments

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Leland (Gandi)

Leland (Gandi) — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:04:57 -0400

@Kev

Thank you for your insightful comments, and you raise some very valid points upon which we would like to expand here.

It is certainly true that all US citizens are subject to US laws as well as local laws irrespective of their geographic situation, so insofar as this raised issue is concerned, nothing here really changes at all. This is indeed the same for citizens of many nations, so the US is not unique in this context.

Concerning jurisdiction, all of our contracts contain a clause outlining the permitted and prohibited use of the services that Gandi provides, which clearly states that the customer guarantees that any use of the service and the content thereof shall respect all local laws and legislations, the rights of third parties (intellectual property, privacy, etc.), and is not participating in illegal or deviant practices. There is a particular emphasis on the laws in France, but the clause clearly applies to any relevant laws since the term "in particularly" is not an exclusion. Thus the fact that Gandi SAS is a French company and itself operates under French law in no way exonerates the customer from respecting the laws applicable to him. This has always been the case, and does not change with the opening of our datacenter or support activities in the US.

You are correct that the relationship between Gandi and the customer is through Gandi SAS (France), as Gandi SAS is still the service provider. Gandi US is contracted to Gandi SAS to provide direct customer support activities to our customers, and other administrative activities in support of our international operations on a day to day basis.

Finally, on the point of privacy protection, you have certainly done your homework. Gandi SAS, being based in the European Union, must respect the European Commissions directive on Data Protection. This directive prohibits the export or provision of privacy protected information to any non-European Union nation that do not meet the adequacy standards set forth in that directive. The US businesses may be certified equivalency to the European Union directive through Safe Harbor accreditation. The use of the data, however, is solely for the purposes of being able to provide the service and support to our customers and the full privacy policy can be found on the Gandi website at http://www.gandi.net/us-privacy . This privacy protection is important firstly to respect the expectations of our customers, and secondly to allow Gandi US to provide customer support functions, since evidently access to such data is required to perform that role.

Nevertheless, the customer base itself is not exported or otherwise duplicated outside the European Union, and strict controls are placed on the access to that data.

I hope that this helps explain some of the points and concerns that have been raised.

Leland

Gandi.net in the U.S! - PM906-GANDI

PM906-GANDI — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 07:06:11 -0400

Kevin, you may be subject to U.S. law, but until recently, your domain registrar (assuming you're a Gandi customer) was well outside the reach of the United States Government, who recently demonstrated that they [will censor you on the evidence-free say-so of a corporate lobbyist from the copyright cartel][1].

References:
[1]: <http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Kevin Anderson

Kevin Anderson — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 16:28:01 -0400

I really do not see what all the fuss is about. First, as a US citizen, I am subject to US law irrespective of any service I have in a foreign country or domestically, and even if I am resident overseas and have no contracts or services in the US, I will be subject to the laws of the US as well as the country in which I reside. Our wonderful state and justice departments have already covered these bases many decades ago.

Second, when I look at the services provided by Gandi, they are no different from a jurisdictional standpoint to any other service or product that I purchase outside the US. From what I can tell as well, even though we have the choice of having our hosting in the US, and support handled by a US team, I have seen no change to any contract for the service to indicate that I will be entering into a US contract with a US company. I do not know the full relation between Gandi France and Gandi US, but just spitballing here, I suspect that the supplier/customer relationship is still with Gandi France.

Third, from the privacy law standpoint, Gandi being based in Europe, will have very strict controls on the storage, control and handling of private customer information, under European law (and equally under French law). I note from the US Department of Commerce website that Gandi US Inc. is certified under Safe Harbor, which by international treaty guarantees equivalence in safeguards of this same information. By the same token, I honestly do not think that Gandi would actually be exporting or duplicating the entire customer base outside of Europe anyway.

I mean, yes here in West Virginia we are seen as rednecks to many, but in my opinion anyone who is so concerned about US jurisdiction over what I do with my domain name or my web hosting is either completely paranoid or has something to hide.

Maybe someone from Gandi can provide more insight into this since there seem to be a lot of folks who see this as a problem.

Bright blessings

Kev

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Ryan (Gandi)

Ryan (Gandi) — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 15:44:22 -0400

@MB Several members of our support team have been replying to the emails that you have been sending Gandi. They have been providing you with clear instructions as to how to solve your problem, and are just waiting for you to send the necessary documents as requested.

Sending repeated emails to different email addresses with the same question will not advance anything, or bypass procedures that are in place to protect domain name owners. You just need to follow the instructions that we have already provided to you in any number of our emails and all will be well.

We DO reply to our customers (as you well know) and do our best to help, however help it is a two-way street, and so now it is your turn to help yourself, by following the instructions that you have been provided with from our support teams, both in the USA and in Paris.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - EH352-GANDI

EH352-GANDI — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 14:21:00 -0400

I agree with PM906-GANDI. One of the largest factors in my choice of Gandi was that it had no US presence. This should have been a competitive advantage that you advertised.

You mention that the registries for .com and .net are in the US, which is correct. but I also have domains registered with Gandi in .info, precisely because the .info registry is controlled by an entity *not* based in the US.

In addition to the positibility of "seizing" a domain, there is the possibility that the US government could access your and your customers' private records in secret with an extra-judicial national security letter, while prohibiting your US office form telling your French headquarters that this has happened.

People who want US hosting or a US registrar have many other choices. people who want a registry free form US presence and vulnerability to the US government's disregard for international law have few choices. Now, with Gandi having a US presence, they have fewer.

Please, please reconsider, and remove your US presence. If not, many of your customers will have to look for another registrar and/or hosting provider.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - MB

MB — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:30:46 -0400

Follow up:

I've been emailing gandi support for almost 24 hour for an EMERGENCY issue involving FRAUD on my account. No response. I am SO disgusted.

Domain registrar shoppers beware. Caveat emptor.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - MB

MB — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:14:34 -0400

I agree with PM906-GANDI. I do not see the good news here. The only appeal of gandi was truly private domain names outside the reach of the US gov (unlike godaddy's 'Domains by Proxy' sham). Now you're accountable to the US gov.

Futhermore, you still don't have proper customer support for US customers. Email is ignored and there is no phone number.

So how does this benefit your US customers?

Gandi.net in the U.S! - MB

MB — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:08:22 -0400

You need a US customer support number. In fact I need it now please. Your lack of prompt customer support is a HUGE problem.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Ryan (Gandi)

Ryan (Gandi) — Thu, 09 Dec 2010 10:39:20 +0100

@John, this is one of the issues that we are still in the process of looking at with regards to our American customers. The problem is surprisingly complex due to the international nature of Gandi, which is why we have not already implemented such a feature.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - John

John — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 01:06:47 +0100

Good news!

Will there be any changes to billing, like an option to pay in dollars to a U.S. bank? Currently our U.S. banks and credit cards often charge a 2-4% transaction fee on any transaction to a foreign bank, even if it is in dollars.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - marc

marc — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:51:02 +0100

@Josh - The U.S. datacenter is in testing this week. More info is forthcoming, but suffice it to say it will be soon. You would have to create new servers, and migrate them using rsync or similar tools.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - marc

marc — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:45:49 +0100

@Jen Green - Thank you, and we're really happy to be here in the U.S. We're not hiring at the moment, but most likely will need additional support people in the near future. Resumes may always be submitted to jobs-us [AT] gandi.net

Gandi.net in the U.S! - marc

marc — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:41:29 +0100

@PM906-GANDI - For domains that are controlled from within the U.S., such as those administered by Verisign or other U.S. based registries (example .com, .net, .org, etc...), it's doubtful that just being based outside the U.S. will protect you should the government decide to seize your domain. Actions of the U.S. against Gandi US will not automatically correlate into actions against Gandi SAS. We will be looking further at the complex issues involved.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Josh

Josh — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 00:54:43 +0100

What's the approximate timeline for when we can create servers in the new hosting center?

Can we migrate existing servers/disks, or only create new ones and do the migration ourselves?

Do you have any kind of early beta for adventurous users?

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Jen Green

Jen Green — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 00:26:36 +0100

Hey Gandi - USA !

Wow, I'm so impressed. I've been a customer for many years now with around 100 domain names with you. It's so great to see your amazing service and skills landing in the USA.

I have enjoyed using your services for many years, like I said but it will be great to watch you grow and grow.

Hey, are you hiring?
Thanks.
Jen
- your loyal customer

Gandi.net in the U.S! - PM906-GANDI

PM906-GANDI — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 21:58:45 +0100

This is disappointing news. Part of the appeal of Gandi to me has been that you are less susceptible to bullying from the U.S. Government and American businesses than U.S. domain registrars are. What effect will your U.S. operation have on your ability to avoid censorship such as that which the U.S. Government is currently perpetrating? (See "U.S. Government Seizes 82 Websites: A Glimpse at the Draconian Future of Copyright Enforcement?" from the Electronic Frontier Foundation: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/... and "Gandi fights domain abuse" from Gandi Bar: http://www.gandibar.net/post/2007/0...)

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Marc

Marc — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:55:12 +0100

@Mariane, Since you didn't give a valid email address, we can't contact you directly, but I encourage you to contact Gandi support for assistance with your service. Bear in mind that, if you have an expert mode server, administration of your site is not something that we can assist with. That would be the responsibility of your webmaster, developer, or system admin person.

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Mariane

Mariane — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:46:51 +0100

Yeah, right. And maybe, now that your new office is up and running you will have time to concentrate on some long drawn issues, such as giving proper support to people who are root on their server? There's no shortage of qualified computer scientists in the US...

Gandi.net in the U.S! - Stephan

Stephan — Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:05:30 +0100

Marc, Howard and all the team there : Welcome !

You're going to start a great adventure there, and we are already proud of what you did.

Please be sure that we'll be supporting you all the way !

Tell the world here, on Twitter, discussions, interviews, events, everywhere that an alternative is on US soil and ready to serve !

Stephan